Not Loged In - Login Now or Create Account
Public Forums
Forums  The American Classic Arcade Museum at Funspot  My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
 
AuthorComments:  Page: of 1 Page
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/13/2013 10:21:02 PM
Based on the ACAM collection, and coupled with my own personal gaming preferences and thoughts on variety of skillset/controller type, etc, coupled with practicality (some titles are not conducive for score tracking in an event situation), here are my personal selections for a tourney at ACAM. Will never happen, but here goes...and if some of these choices are not conducive to an event (i.e. scores disappear, etc) well then I forgot those caveats for those titles so the reserve choices could make up for their exclusion)

For starters, fifteen (15) titles, and up to five (5) in reserve. If a title conks out before Friday's event day comes to an end and cannot be repaired, a reserve title is added to the event. If a title gives out on the weekend, it is removed from the event and no reserve title replaces it.

That stated, here are my fifteen (15) titles and five (5) reserve titles based on the ACAM collection as I know it, and excluding the titles that are owned by ACAM yet are in the shop such as "Narc".

*********************

MAIN EVENT
Astro Blaster
Canyon Bomber
Cheyenne
Death Race
Lock n Chase
Moon War
Pengo
Pole Position (orig)
Pooyan
Rampage
Smash TV (1 player only, 1 credit, max difficulty, start with 3 lives)
Space Harrier
Space Zap
Stocker
Warlords


RESERVE TITLES
Buggy Challenge
Carnival
Circus Charlie
Rally-X
Space Duel (everyone MUST play single ship non-connected)


SPECIAL MINI-EVENT TITLE
Gorf (5 minutes ONLY...we had a lot of fun with this format a few November's back)
-> This would require a dedicated referee for the event which would be one day only from open to close, and I'd volunteer to function as the referee for that event


 
Nashvillan
Admin

Posts: 660
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/13/2013 11:11:06 PM
I normally don't respond to this, however you brought up so many points that I felt the need to step in.

First off, I know Cheyenne, Astro Blaster, Buggy Challenge, Rally-X, and Carnival were all in the main tournament recently. Rally X was one of the mystery games this year as well. I'm sure some of the others have been in the tournaments as well.
Some of the games you mentioned might have a problem with being in the tournament because of the fact that it may be possible to not be able to turn off the continue feature. This was the case with Joust 2 which was in the main tournament, but was pulled because the continue feature couldn't be turned off.
Personally, I love the idea of timed games like your Gorf idea, it brings out a "Starcade" format and I was a huge fan of the show. I do know there is opposition to this format in the forums though. And as for having a ref on site for this, it would be asking too much for one person to man the station the entire time, even for me. More than likely it would need to be done in shifts and there would need to be a camera on the score at all times with the ability to freeze the tape when the timer expires. The easiest way to do this would be to place a tiny light bulb just above the score which would light up when time expired. This would serve as an easier way to gauge when to stop scoring. I have other ideas in mind with this format too.

I also have a problem with the format of not replacing games that go out over the weekend not getting replaced. It should not be spelled out like that because if there happens to be an arcade player that doesn't give respect to the player or the machine, he could attempt to sabotage a game he's not very good at just to see it wheeled off the floor and not counted. Can you imagine what would happen if Donald Hayes killscreened Kick Man and then some random person intentionally broke Kick Man just so everyone's scores (including Hayes) wouldn't count? If it gets replace, fine, but it should be done at the discretion of the tournament officials behind closed doors not spelled out for the participants to find a loophole to gain an unfair advantage.

Hopefully this settles things here and now while I go back to my stack of submissions which is piling up again.

Robert Wrote:
Based on the ACAM collection, and coupled with my own personal gaming preferences and thoughts on variety of skillset/controller type, etc, coupled with practicality (some titles are not conducive for score tracking in an event situation), here are my personal selections for a tourney at ACAM. Will never happen, but here goes...and if some of these choices are not conducive to an event (i.e. scores disappear, etc) well then I forgot those caveats for those titles so the reserve choices could make up for their exclusion)

For starters, fifteen (15) titles, and up to five (5) in reserve. If a title conks out before Friday's event day comes to an end and cannot be repaired, a reserve title is added to the event. If a title gives out on the weekend, it is removed from the event and no reserve title replaces it.

That stated, here are my fifteen (15) titles and five (5) reserve titles based on the ACAM collection as I know it, and excluding the titles that are owned by ACAM yet are in the shop such as "Narc".

*********************

MAIN EVENT
Astro Blaster
Canyon Bomber
Cheyenne
Death Race
Lock n Chase
Moon War
Pengo
Pole Position (orig)
Pooyan
Rampage
Smash TV (1 player only, 1 credit, max difficulty, start with 3 lives)
Space Harrier
Space Zap
Stocker
Warlords


RESERVE TITLES
Buggy Challenge
Carnival
Circus Charlie
Rally-X
Space Duel (everyone MUST play single ship non-connected)


SPECIAL MINI-EVENT TITLE
Gorf (5 minutes ONLY...we had a lot of fun with this format a few November's back)
-> This would require a dedicated referee for the event which would be one day only from open to close, and I'd volunteer to function as the referee for that event


 
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/13/2013 11:55:59 PM
Good points on the "What If" factor...but then again, if someone kill-screened a game on "Day One" and no one else could play, it is not fair to basically give someone a 100% and no one else has a chance on that title to put up any score.

The removal aspect is shaky territory. Seems like there are a few possible ways to handle each with one or more plus/minus issues associated. The clear cut way to avoid, of course, is to have multiple of each title present, but that is unrealistic. So I am curious, I suppose, what everyone's thoughts are on the "What if" scenario of when a game breaks down mid-event and whether that view will differ depending on which day of the event it breaks.

The "Gorf" idea was based on a few of us doing this for a good 4-5 hours one day. Maybe having 2-3 such "mini-events" during a tourney with a 6 hour window per event, then...that way 120 attempts can be made (or more if people die before the 5 minutes expires). Just a thought.

Did not look back at recent inclusions when I came up with the roster, to be honest...I took a "start fresh" approach.

As for which titles might have continue issues that cannot be turned off, etc...I am unsure which would, to be honest, but these were just my initial choices. A few that I was definitely aware of like "Joust 2", "Lost Tomb" and "Xybots" I left out.

I also intentionally left out marathonable titles or those where too many participants would be on the game for an hour or more. Did not seem practical to include those.


 
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 1:24:26 AM
I suppose a better sub-topic would be the following...

1st - what is everyone's idea in terms of titles that give out and cannot be quickly repaired mid-competition ?

2nd - does an ideal roster of tournament titles necessarily have to reflect a broad depth of skillsets, controller types, etc (i.e. do you have to have a shooting game, a driving game to make for a challenging mix)

Robert


 
Steve W
Member

Posts: 157
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 7:11:17 AM
Robert Wrote:
I suppose a better sub-topic would be the following...

1st - what is everyone's idea in terms of titles that give out and cannot be quickly repaired mid-competition ?

2nd - does an ideal roster of tournament titles necessarily have to reflect a broad depth of skillsets, controller types, etc (i.e. do you have to have a shooting game, a driving game to make for a challenging mix)

Robert


1. If it breaks before the midway point, I say replace it and toss the scores. I would be appalled if someone tried to sabotage a game by getting it out of the tourney through injury and I'm sure many people would see it and report them.

2. Yes, IMO.


 
bestcellar
Member

Posts: 45
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 1:01:43 PM
Robert -

Great thread, a lot of thought obviously put into this. Rally X is a really great game. I'm lamenting that I had to leave the tournament before sunday, as I have never seen anyone be able to get past level 6 consistently (I've only done it twice myself). I would have loved to have seen some patterns people had developed for levels 4-6 to compare them to mine.

That being said, I think that game definitely seems to have been pretty overdone recently - hasn't it made an appearance in three of the last four or five ACAM tournaments now? For an arcade with so many titles to choose from, it seems odd that a couple of the games seem to have become standbys for the recent tournaments.

I do like a lot of the other titles you suggested. Pengo is a great choice because it's so difficult, and the games are quick. Death Race would be amazing. I will say that I'm sick to death of Pole Position, and that I would much rather see any other driver in this tournament than that game AGAIN.

I think a major triumph of this year's tournament was that it mixed a handful of really odd/rare games with a few more familiar titles.

A few games I'd love to see in an upcoming tournament:

Dragon Spirit
Ghosts N Goblins
Turbo
Krull
Halley's Comet
Bosconian
Out Run
Jackal
Vulgus

PS It's really too bad that ACAM cuts it off at 1987 because 1988 has so many great titles that would be worth adding to the tournament (Haunted Castle, Splatterhouse, Gradius II, Truxton to name a few)


 
bestcellar
Member

Posts: 45
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 1:07:09 PM
Robert Wrote:
I suppose a better sub-topic would be the following...

1st - what is everyone's idea in terms of titles that give out and cannot be quickly repaired mid-competition ?

2nd - does an ideal roster of tournament titles necessarily have to reflect a broad depth of skillsets, controller types, etc (i.e. do you have to have a shooting game, a driving game to make for a challenging mix)

Robert

1) All scores scrapped for that game, obviously. I don't mind adding a game at any point because it's the player's discretion as to how much time they devote to a particular title.

2) Absolutely. Ideally there should be at least one driver, at least one vertical shooter, at least one horizontal shooter, at least one joystick only game, and at least one with some form of unusual controls (IE crazy climber)


 
moneill139
Member

Posts: 67
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 4:31:47 PM
Great lists! Krull and Dragon Spirit definitely. Solar Fox, Moon War, Death Race and Warlords would be great too. I like the Space Harrier idea where it is more interactive. Im sure there are more games ACAM doesn't have or are in the warehouse that they could put together.


 
Rob Ross
Member

Posts: 196
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 7:56:59 PM
Robert's list would get my $60.

I might have entered this year if Juno First had been replaced with Track & Field, but alas it was not to be.

Overall, I'm sick of listing games which will never be used in the tourney. However, I will say that there should be 14 games (not 15) with the different subgenres getting 2 games each.

For instance...

2 Space Shooters (ie THE END)
2 Maze Games (ie LADYBUG)
2 Gun Games (ie CHEYENNE)
2 Steering Wheel Games (ie DEATH RACE)
2 Side Scrollers (ie GHOST N GOBLINS)
2 Strategy Games (ie QIX)
2 Vector Games (ie LUNAR LANDER)

And there are other subgenres.

A better balance would be nice. When I saw so many space shooters this year it guaranteed my exclusion.


 
Rob Ross
Member

Posts: 196
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/14/2013 8:04:00 PM
Balance needs to be restored to the force.


 
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 2:08:44 AM
Dragon Spirit is a title that likely will never make it into the annual event due to the unlimited buy-in potential plus the score retention feature.

Unless a dedicated referee was assigned to the game, which is quite expensive for a 40+ hour event, a title of this nature just can't make it. This is the reason, I found out, that "Joust 2" was removed mid-event.


 
Rob Ross
Member

Posts: 196
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 10:23:37 AM
If they put a game in the tourney, that let's say had a continue feature which couldn't be altered - Ghost N Goblins, Gunsmoke - you wouldn't necessarily need a 24/7 ref. All they would need to do is place the game at the closest corner to the Aurcade Registration tables. That way eyes would always be on it and cheaters would be deterred. Like where Star Wars was, but turn it so the screen can be seen by David, Graham, et al.

I've said before that the tourney area should be redesigned to give maximum space for the players....and connect projectors for gameplay viewing, streaming across the internet, oh and wifi for the players, etc. This is billed as the great, one and only ACAM Tournament so it should have all the bells and whistles. Shouldn't it?


 
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 3:58:43 PM
Rob, it's easier said than done to expect a "watchful eye" during all moments on a game.

Attention wanders for the best of us not already engaged in playing a game. And it has happened already on more than one occasion where the referee chooses the wrong game and/or score mid-event and the player clicks the OK button afterwards. Such mistakes are often caught within minutes depending on how out of whack the score is in line with normal scores on that title, such as the 8K+ score logged this event on "Night Driver", another forum discussion during the competition.

These are not professionals watching the goings-on of the event. These are simply paid volunteers. They do the best that they can. It would be unrealistic and unfair to expect them to provide undivided attention for such a lengthy span of time.

Without sounding adversarial, if we, as gamers, wanted/expected professional referees (and PLEASE do not say TG staff in response), then do not balk at a commensurate and substantial increase in the registration fee.

Now, there is a very reasonable solution to this, and I am willing to bet that few would accept the role. For such titles, an attending gamer can volunteer (unpaid) to monitor one or two such titles in 4-hour intervals. Wouldn't need more than 10 gamers throughout the event for every 2 titles to watch during the 40-hour event. Think that 10 people can commit to this during a paid event ? I'm willing to bet no, and I've already done so for score entry purposes years back spending 3/4 of one event entering scores pre-Aurcade. Trust me, it's not enjoyable though it serves a great cause.

I guess it comes down to reasonability. How reasonable is it to expect one or more paid albeit non-professional volunteers to diligently, accurately and consistently monitor special needs titles across a 40-hour event ?

Think about it...one single missed altercation, likely a second inserted coin when the ref's attention was re-deployed to another title...in that one moment a player gains an advantage if they are not caught, and in some titles that second coin in the hands of the right player could easily mean the creation of a huge gap between their score and those of their opponents.

And all of the above only covers concerns where titles have the possibility of additional credits entered and possibly related score retention concerns. But what about titles where the score disappears after a scant 3-5 seconds...or maybe not even that many on titles where unless the score is the new to score on the machine it is not recognized/stored ? Games like "Final Lap" come immediately to mind.

In cases like this, getting the referee's attention immediately is absolutely essential, and such is not always possible or realistic to expect, thus explaining the exclusion of another array of titles from the events.

Practical working solutions to these concerns I think are best brought to the attention of those who run the event...I'm just curious what fellow gamers think of such concerns.


 
Rob Ross
Member

Posts: 196
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 4:51:41 PM
I'll counter with this option.

If a continue type game were in the tournament, just plug it into a projector and shine the gameplay up on a wall for all to monitor.

I also think the risk of being labelled a cheater (forever and ever) would deter most from continuing a game.


 
redelf
Member

Posts: 61
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 9:12:45 PM
Possibly a good solution to continues on Joust 2 would be for FS to put in 50 credits
and disable the coin mechs. After getting the attention of a score keeper give them
1 token and then record how many credits are on the machine. After the game is
complete check to see that only 1 credit has been subtracted and then record the
score. It might still be too much to do just to have a game in the tourney but it would
open up a lot of games that otherwise weren't previously available.



 
Nashvillan
Admin

Posts: 660
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 9:24:37 PM
redelf Wrote:
Possibly a good solution to continues on Joust 2 would be for FS to put in 50 credits
and disable the coin mechs. After getting the attention of a score keeper give them
1 token and then record how many credits are on the machine. After the game is
complete check to see that only 1 credit has been subtracted and then record the
score. It might still be too much to do just to have a game in the tourney but it would
open up a lot of games that otherwise weren't previously available.


I see a problem right away.

You play Joust 2. You don't best your previous score. You walk away in a fit of rage and try and find another game to play. A 2nd player walks up to the machine and plays the game and does best his score. He notifies the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper notices two credits missing from the game. 2nd player insists he only played one credit. Whaddaya do? Scorekeeper's facts versus player's word.


 
Robert
Member

Posts: 116
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/15/2013 9:46:07 PM
I see the projector option as being very iffy and unreliable. Even at baseball games there are hundreds of fans not paying attention at key moments, so this leaves too much to chance. If even one extra coin inserted sneaks its way into the competition results then the results are forever tainted.

The extra coin suggestion...that puts an additional responsibility on the shoulder of the referees and would be something for the ACAM event organizers to evaluate the practicality of.

I wonder once more whether anyone would willingly volunteer to give up four solid hours (unpaid) during the event to help out...but then again, if a participating gamer is part of the referee team even if only for a brief stint, this could easily be seen as having the potential to be a conflict of interest by some (maybe even by many) so scratch my own suggestion off the table.


 
lakeman421
Member

Posts: 157
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/16/2013 2:07:38 AM
I think having a person scoring just one game to make sure no one cheats would take a lot of effort. This year with Night Driver you need someone close by if the score was about the roll-over. I had a ref question my 1045 cause it came up as 045. Luckily I had people behind me verifying I did roll the score over. I noticed when Dave Nelson was play, he would be trying to call someone when he was about to roll the score over so he wouldnt be questioned. This may possibly cause him to ruin his game when his thoughts were wondering if someone would be over in time. Then there were also another guy having to watch the Kickman killscreens for hours on end, but i think there is always this problem. There are certain games where something has to always be watched. Some games erase the score immediately, and have to be carefully watched. Also another thing to keep in mind when selecting the lineup since you dont want too many games like that, or else you would need a lot more workers or volunteers to take scores along with more iPads.


 
Nashvillan
Admin

Posts: 660
RE: My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
on 6/16/2013 2:30:19 AM
lakeman421 Wrote:
I think having a person scoring just one game to make sure no one cheats would take a lot of effort. This year with Night Driver you need someone close by if the score was about the roll-over.

It didn't hurt that I was one of the folks that witnessed your rollover. :)
Even if it meant that I got bumped to 4th place on that game... lol

I also witnessed Mike Stuir's Tapper rollover of one million points. The thing with his rollover is once he rolled it over, I had to watch that game like a hawk to make sure he played through and finished his game and didn't restart the game at any time. I also had a camera handy and took several pictures along the way just in case a circuit breaker tripped or somebody tripped over a Q*bert power cord or something like that. ;) He and I had a good laugh on a couple of occasions along the way. :)


 
 Page: of 1 Page

Forums  The American Classic Arcade Museum at Funspot  My Suggested ACAM Event Roster
 
Recent Scores
275,670
Andrew Iwaszko
5/23/2024
50,050
Andrew Iwaszko
5/23/2024
2,763,000
Andrew Iwaszko
5/20/2024
51,581
Jay Stacel
5/20/2024
13,060
Brandon Travis
5/20/2024